How do I describe you? Britain's leading expert on coffee? I don't— Or Britain's leading YouTuber on coffee? Coffee expert? Whatever's fine. (laughs) It's like asking me
what I do for a living. I'm like, "I don't know. Things." Yeah, I know the feeling. I mean, it's a YouTube— Yeah. Just so, we can say coffee
person YouTube weirdo. I don't know, I don't know! I apologise. I'm with James Hoffmann, who has just asked me to call
him "YouTube coffee weirdo", so.
It's probably accurate. His words, not mine. He's going to teach me about coffee, which is something I know… it's not that I don't know
anything about coffee. It's that I haven't really
tasted coffee since I was a kid. Okay. Now that was the setup that
was initially interesting. It's like, find your perfect coffee. Yeah. And then they were
like, a couple of caveats. (laughs) You don't like coffee, and sort of not a huge fan of caffeine. So I decided when I was
sort of 14, 15 that I did not like coffee. Because I tried coffee,
and I probably tried, I don't think it was instant, but I think it was
fairly cheap drip coffee or something like that. I just said, well, I do not understand
why the adults like this. I'm not going to do it. And then I kind of never
really got into caffeine. I decided that wasn't for me either. So it was just easier to
say, "I don't like coffee." But like socially, it's
nice to be able to accept a cup of coffee from someone.
Yeah. It's a thing that clearly
a lot of people really enjoy, so I want to reevaluate this. I want to be able to say, I want to able to make the decision, is this a thing that adult me,
in my thirties, actually likes? And I think if anyone's
going to be able to find me something that is not cheap drip coffee… I would hope so. Yes. So I worked on the idea
that caffeine was mostly out. So 90% of what you going to taste today does not have caffeine in it,
which made it a challenge. Yeah, and it will have done. 'Cause I know that's,
'cause decaffeinating things, I looked into the
process. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. I'm okay with having, like, if there's a bit of caffeine
in there, I'm fine with that. Like if I drink more than
about one shot of espresso through the course of this
though, it's probably going to.
We'll see how we go. We'll see what happens. So what we're going to do today. Okay. We're going to do a
little guided tasting. Because, I'll tell you why afterwards. We're going to start with one round to assess kind of one aspect of coffee to see how you feel about it. So we've got in front of us three coffees. Okay. I'm not going to tell you what they are because it's not important. We're going to do a sort
of a base preference test around coffee. Okay. So what I'm going to do is do these as what we would call a cupping, which is the very simple
way we taste coffee. There's ground coffee in each glass. I'm going to pour boiling water on top. Yep.
They're going to hang out
for about four minutes. Okay. Give them a little stir, scoop
off the stuff that floats, and then that liquid, we can taste. Right. Before I put water on these, just for your interest,
have a smell of each glass. Okay.
And just see how you feel. The smell of coffee to
most people is quite nice. Yes, absolutely.
I'd be interested to
know if one of these smells nicer to you than another, and I'm going to go and boil a kettle. Okay, okay. So number one. Okay, so that, I don't
have the words for it, but that's, that's not a pleasant, that feels like there's a lot of, kind of, earth, wood
notes, things like that.
I don't have the words
to describe what that is, but the word that came to
mind was sort of earth. Number two. Wood. If number one is
earth, number two is wood. Oh, number three is a lot nicer. Number three is… Number three almost has a
sweet note on top of it. Earth, wood, slightly sweeter, but I don't know what to call it.
This is quite nice
if you liked the smell. That smelt pleasant to you? Yeah. So boiling water into each of them. So these are freshly ground? Freshly ground.
– Right. There's a whole process there, which I know you go into great detail about on your channel. Everything can be optimised. Hot coffee is actually
really quite hard to taste, and it's a mistake many
people kind of make is that, you know, you're drinking coffee hot. You want it for the heat, but
if you want it for flavour, you won't get the best out of it. And you'll tend to experience
things like bitterness a little bit more intensely when it's hot. That can fade a little as it cools down and things get just more interesting. And you'll experience that. So I'll tell you now what
you think about these when you first taste them will change. Okay.
Right as you go through. Now, when it comes time to taste, what I don't want to do is
just throw a load of flavour and experience at you
and be like, how is that? Okay. Because that's just too much. The brain was just like, "I don't know." And you get into a very much like a, "I like it. I don't. I
don't know what it is." "I'm just, no." So what we're going to do when we taste is break down sort of single components and compare them coffee to coffee. Okay.
Right? Comparative tasting
is the single best way to learn to taste anything. Right.
Right, sitting at home
with a glass of wine, trying to work out, what
does this taste like? How do I describe this?
Really hard. Yep.
Really hard. You might be like,
"It's a bit fruity?" And that's kind of where you end. Give yourself two glasses,
much more fun, but you can compare the two, right? Which one is fruitier? Which one is more acidic,
which one is sweeter, which one finishes better,
all of those kinds of things. That's what we're going to do here. Okay. To start off with, we're
just going to focus on single aspects of the coffee and compare and contrast those. All right. Okay. I'm just going to
clean this up a little bit now. So when you think
clean these up, this is? So if we tried to drink this now, Yep. that's just ground
coffee floating on the top. Okay, let's not do that.
Which is kind of, I mean it's— It's an experience. It's food safe.
Yes. It's just not nice. So what you do is you
give them a little stir, and this actually causes
most of the grounds that were floating on the
top to sink to the bottom. All right. And then we scoop off
whatever remains. Ah, okay. Leaving behind,
let me throw this in here. I assume that the stuff,
so the stuff on top, I feel like is a thing
I've seen a lot of coffees? Right. Like the, what? How do you
mean? Like the foamy stuff? Yeah, or is that a different… Bear in mind, complete novice here. Right, okay. I'll give
you the very short answer, which is foam happens in coffee because when you roast coffee, a bunch of the byproducts from the chemistry of roasting is CO₂. It gets trapped inside of the coffee. Oh, okay.
About a kilo of coffee will produce in its roasting process about 10 litres of CO₂ at a time. Right. A lot of that gets
trapped in the coffee, and certain brew methods
sort of bring it out. So espresso is the most famous. 1948, a guy invents
a high-pressure espresso machine. Yeah. And everyone's like, "What is the disgusting
scum on the coffee now?" He calls it "crema"! And he's like, "No, it's
natural coffee cream." "Natural coffee cream"…
Right, okay. which is a beautiful piece of
marketing that has, I think, transported espresso as a kind
of a brand around the world. What we're going to do, what we used to do was get a spoonful, and slurp very loudly from the spoon, aerate the coffee in the mouth, and sort of turn up the volume. But then what we would do is kind of give it a quick
rinse in some hot water and put that same spoon
that had been on our mouths back in another bowl. Oh, let's not do that.
Right, so that's not
what we do anymore. So that's why you have
a little cup. And what we'll do is
take a spoonful, throw it in the little cup. Yep. And then slurp
as rudely as you like. All right. (slurps) From the little cup. All I want you to do as
you taste through these is compare the bitterness of
one to the bitterness of two, the bitterness of two to
the bitterness of three, Right, and ignore everything else? Ignore everything else right now. I just want you to focus on
bitterness to start with. Okay.
Take your time. Don't feel rushed by me or anything. So, spoonful.
Spoonful into the cup. Into the cup. A little swirl
will cool it down a touch and make it easier. A little swirl,
cool it down a touch.
I'll have another little go on this. And then have a sip. Now
your brain is going to be like, you don't have a benchmark yet. No, I don't So have a sip, think
about the bitterness. Hm. Okay. And then— I mean already compared
to, you know, 14 year old me, spitting this out
immediately and going like, clearly my palette has changed, 'cause— It's not— you're not upset? That's not unpleasant.
It's not pleasant yet, 'cause I haven't gotten
used to it, but it's yeah. That's a thing. All right. Number two. Oh, that's less bitter I
think, or is it just warmer? No, it's less bitter. Okay. I've worked that out.
Yeah. That's it. There is less
bitterness in two than one. (both slurp) No, it's almost, my brain almost briefly thought
that was sweet. That's interesting. Well, we'll think about
sweetness in a second. Have a compare, so benchmark
that bitterness in your brain. Yeah. Number three.
Number three, Swirl it around.
Let it cool down a moment. Now I don't know whether my taste buds have just been blown
out by those first two, but that barely tastes
bitter at all to me.
It is pretty, pretty,
barely bitter, yeah. Right. And people have an
expectation of coffee's flavour that it is this big, harsh, mean thing, and so most people reach for
milk, or they reach for sugar, because they want to
temper that bitterness. And milk is an amazing thing. It's one of the few natural
bitter-blockers out there. Most coffee needs
milk and sugar, right? Most coffee that you
will drink in the world, I would recommend tempering it because most coffee isn't very good compared to how good coffee can be. Right. Now, you said sweetness, so
let's go the other way again. So let's go three, two, one,
sweetness comparison, alright? Okay. How does the sweetness
of one, sorry three, compare to the sweetness of two. Okay, right. Focus on that. And the spoon does not touch the cup. There is an air gap there. That's it. That's just a little bit for me. Spot the person that used
to do computer security. "Air gap".
Right, so we're looking for sweetness. I only know what that means
'cause I watched Mr. Robot. (laughs) Now sweetness is a tricky word, right. Because you will have
coffees that taste sweet, but do not taste sweetened, right. Yes.
So the moment that I added a sprinkle of sugar to that and you'd be like,
"Oh no, that's sweetened." Yeah, that's— And instead, you're looking for a kind of pleasant characteristic, a kind of natural sweetness,
but not a sugary sweetness, Right. And I feel like there's a
bit of that in there, but I'm being very
non-committal on that just to… 'cause I don't know what to compare it to. All right. Number two. It's hard to taste above
the bitter note there. Well, so now, take yourself back then to the first thing you tasted
that you were surprised by. Yeah. How does that now stack up now that you've got a benchmark? I feel like there's
a sweet note in there, but I only got it on, like, the last…
I'm second guessing myself here. I feel like there was a sweet
note in there towards the end when it was starting to get cooler. All right. Let's do number one. So this was bitter, or so— This was the most bitter of the three. So does it also have
that sweet note in it? So I don't think it does. I don't think it does either. Okay. That's— (laughs) I keep, like I feel like I'm guessing. I feel like an imposter here who is magically guessing
the correct things, because I don't know. If I were to rate them, I'm
not sure about these two. That one's definitely not
got a sweet note here.
I feel like two might
have had more of that. Interesting. But I'm not sure about that choice. I think they're pretty
close in terms of sweetness. I think— I feel like I'm at the opticians, and someone's going
"One or two, one or two." I absentmindedly finished off that one. You know, there was more in
the cup.
I just kind of sipped. That was really pleasant. Well, that's it. We're going to get one
more sort of characteristic at this stage.
All right. Which is, I want you
to pay attention to acidity just quickly. Just taste each one, and tell me which one you feel
has the most acidity to it. All right. Number one. Number two. Ooh. Definitely more in two than one, 'cause I know what I'm looking for here more than anything, like I
know what flavour I'm trying, what profile I'm trying
to match in my head there. Three, but only. Two definitely has some, but I feel like three definitely has more of that sort of
vinegar, citrus bite to it. Do you like it?
Yes. And so I would say, I would infer then, that this is probably your preference of these three from a sort
of tastes perspective. It's got a hint of sweetness
to it, and less bitterness, but it's also got that acid bite. Right. So from this…
Yeah. I now have a good benchmark
of kind of what you're into. What we're going to do now is refine that through another round of tasting. Okay.
Round two is no longer
about sort of tastes. So the first round is
really about, you know, bitter, sweet, acidity. How do you feel about those?
How do you perceive those? How do you enjoy those?
Right. Here we're going to
focus much more on flavour, which is a little bit more challenging because then you're into
sort of finding the words in the wine tasting and
the hints of wisteria or all that sort of stuff. Don't worry too much about that. We'll we'll pick it apart a
little bit more in a second, but that's what we're going to do. So if you want to have a little smell. All right.
Again, just compare and contrast. Number one. See how you feel. Hmm. (laughs) I don't have the words,
you're right. No, it's okay. I'll give you some words later, and they'll be hopefully satisfying. I don't want to say floral. Floral is the wrong, but plants. Yes. Which is an obvious thing. It's coffee. It's a plant. That's
not a helpful word, but. Wood bark.
Okay. Ooh, oh, what's that? That is… that's a memory from something. I almost want to say berries. Mm-hmm. I don't know what berry,
but that's the note. You're saying, "Mm-hmm," and I can't tell if
that's thinking I'm mad or thinking that— I can't skew you too far
one way or the other. Ooh, um… spice. Specifically almost
like the vinegary thing you get from kimchi or
something like that.
Interesting. A kind of fermented note? Yes. Yes, that's the word fermented. All right. You are scoring big points. Am I? You're scoring big.
I'm going to get a kettle. You're doing very well. (laughs) I found a skill! (laughs) This is good. So far, doing things where
I'm outside my comfort zone, I haven't found skills, and now. Your coffee tasting
language is very good. Okay, right. Flavour.
Right. It's hard.
Yes. And that's okay, all right. So don't beat yourself up
about those kinds of things. So to start initially, do that kind of initial assessment. Okay, how does this feel?
How's the sweetness? How's the bitterness? How's the acidity? Swallow, and then try to
figure out what's left filling your head. What kind of flavours? Yes. Okay.
All right. That's the sort of easiest time. Number one. Just a quick taste here. Number one, not pleasant for me. Okay. There's some note in that.
I would go with earthy? Yep. Not sure if it's the right word, but I'm going to go with earthy. It doesn't work for me, that. Yeah. But that as a flavour is quite appealing to a number of people in coffee. Oh, okay.
Right, so that, that is quite a desirable characteristic. It's a bit of a Marmite flavour. Yeah, not literally, but. Not literally, thankfully. Number two does not have the— I'm trying to work out if
it just feels like there… Hang on. That feels like number
one, but missing that note. Okay, interesting. Now I'm not sure there's
anything there to replace it. Number one tasted like coffee to me. Yup. Number two tastes a little bit more like someone has introduced
something to some hot water, and infused it a bit, and
there's not enough flavour.
That was almost felt weak to me. Now, it is in part
because it's really hot. That's true. So this will improve in
flavour as you go down. Oh, there it went.
Oh, don't worry. That splattered everywhere. Oh, what's that? Number three has a
definite note to it that. It's not vinegar. It's
something close to that. It's something. I need, I'm going to try
number three again there. There's something in that
I need to place. It's not citrus.
It's something like that. There is. Right, it's a sort of acid dominant, quite sort of fruit acid flavour. Yes, I remember smelling
that and saying berries. Okay. All right. And number four was the one, I don't want to like preempt what my brain is going to say here, but number four was the one where I was thinking fermented notes. Yes, but that's too hot. Hang on. That's all right. Yes, that is— That's the same thing. I know it's not kimchi, and it's not going to be
the same exact flavour. But that's the same note.
Definitely. I'm not sure… So one I would write off
as just an unpleasant note, that earthy note is not for me. Of those, I think I prefer number four. If you gave me a choice, I'd go for that, but both three and four are
very pleasant in different ways. There's no sweetness in
there that I can detect, or at least quite…
Three has a bit of it. Yup. Four replaces that with
that kind of fermented. Yeah, it's a sort of more
of a, you go to kimchi. My brain would really go more
into the world of kombucha and those kinds of ferments, Right, which is not
something I'm familiar with. That explains why. Okay. Whereas kimchi, I know must be, you know, kimchi often has a kind of lactic acid. Yes, yes. Quality to it. I think it's a lactic ferment, which is a different sort
of acidity to me than that, which is a little bit
more sort of citric still. Like it's still a fruit acid in there, but it's sort of a fermented
fruit quality to it. The water almost tasted
sweet for a moment.
Now this is for me wonderful. Because one, you clearly
taste the differences. Yes, absolutely. You've accurately
tasted the differences. You've expressed preference quite easily, which is definitely useful. I was a bit mean. How would this compare to say the one you liked
in the first round? So number three in the
first round and this, do you have a preference between the two? You're going to reveal
they're the same one, or? Yeah, they are. Of course they are. 'Cause that feels weak to me now. That feels like you watered it down. It's context.
Right. So the flaw in how we taste in some ways is that we are very much contextual. Right? And so when you
produce something very big, very heavy, you compare it. Now, there's a fun little game. Go backwards.
So start here,
go to here, and go to here. So number four. Right, very strong fermented
flavour off that now. Oh, wow! Okay, now I can definitely
taste fruit acid in that. Wow. Okay. That way round, I prefer
the second one as well. Interesting. Going that way, prefer the fourth. Going that way, prefer the third. And this, which of course, I now know is the one from earlier, which is going to change
my perception as well. But—
Oh! Does not feel weak anymore. Right, so you've gone from
actually quite a light bodied, but high acidity thing
to a little less acid, but a bit more texture,
and suddenly it's there. Now, if you go to here again. Oh, this is going to just, this is going to be very
strong now, isn't it? Mm.
Yeah, no, that's,
whatever that flavour is, whatever that note is that
some people like, I do not. This is one, I don't particularly enjoy
coffee that tastes like this. Some people really prize that
heaviness, that earthiness, that lack of acid,
those kind of flavours. They really enjoy them. This is the one from the first round. So what we've talked
about it, it's very nice. I think it's just a very enjoyable— Going that way, that's
the one I enjoy the most. Interesting, but it's the, it's not the most interesting.
It's just very friendly. Yes. That, the number
four is interesting. Yeah. Number three is, it's okay. But going either way, I
feel like there's not, compared to these two,
those two stand out to me, and this is kind of
somewhere in the middle. That one's interesting.
That one is just pleasant.
But I am so aware that a lot of that is based on me now knowing
that that's the one from the first round,
that's what I'm looking for, and going this way into it. Right, it's— a lot of it's context, and you can mess with people, and it's quite fun to mess with people. This one here, people get very confused when
they drink coffees like this, because they're like, "That's not… "That's not really coffee anymore. Like, what is? That is
a fruity, hot thing." If it turns out one of these is actually ground tea, I'm
going to be really frustrated.
None of them are ground tea. It's all coffee, I promise. So what is number two? I'm going to just check, 'cause I feel like this is the one. Which given I wrote it
off as being weak earlier is a really strange thing to say. It's not. It's, I mean, that was one way you were sort of tripped
up by what was around it, semi-intentionally, because
I think that contrast is really interesting to sort of understand what you're tasting. But I think of these… Yep, definitely that one. Would you say you,
do you like the taste? I think this… I do not dislike the taste, Yep. but my immediate thought
is it would it be better tempered with a little
bit of some sort of dairy or equivalent and a little bit of sugar. It's absent of defects in a way. It doesn't have any harshness.
There's no bitterness. There's no unpleasant flavours there. There's a kind of core,
kind of coffeeness to it. It is the basic person's coffee.
I can deal with that, that's fine.
No, no, no! Not at all! Not at all! Like it is, I think, probably my
preference on the table, too, if I was to be like,
"What am I drinking right now?" I mean, I'd lean towards
this a little bit, but I like that a lot, too. It is just very drinkable.
It's nice and sweet. It feels nice to drink. What is it then? It's a coffee from Columbia.
Right. This is a good example
of the style of coffee that you would buy in most
modern coffee shops, actually. So, you know, the kind of wave of sort of modern specialty
coffees we talk about it. That's a very good example
of the kind of coffees that we've been trying to
get people excited about. All that's left for you to do
now is taste this some more. So what we're going to do
is we're going to make this as an espresso,
Right. as an cappuccino,
Okay. a little milk drink of some sort, Yeah.
and as a filter coffee.
Okay. And you can sort of understand a bit more about how you like to drink. Now you understand
what you like to drink, now we can do
how you like to drink it, and then you'll end up
with your kind of drink should you want to go to a
coffee shop and order something. ♪ (bright acoustic music) So after a break where
the baristas upstairs have made some things. They've made some things. I know that's espresso, That is espresso. 'Cause it's a tiny shot
in a tiny glass. It is. I'm going to guess, flat white? A cappuccino,
a little bit more texture, a little bit more foam. And then I was going to do
just a brew of the decaf, but I thought, because you seem a little
bit more open to caffeine. I can take it.
Yeah,
I can take a little. And that is something in a similar style with caffeine to the list.
– Okay. And it isn't really a
blind tasting anymore. Okay. That would be difficult. A chance for you just to kind of assess how you like your coffee made. All right. So I would say, here's your espresso. Yeah, I just take that. Give it a stir first. It's a— Get a shot of that. There we go. Yeah. You see the foam's dissipated a little. Let's stir the foam back in. It's actually, the bottom of the drink has more dense liquid than at the top. So as you sip it, the drink would change, but if you're going to have
one sip, forget it, mix it up. All right, so this is decaf espresso with the coffee I chose. And it will be pretty intense. Ooh. Oh, wow! Okay. So— (laughs) I can see why people like this! And as someone who likes
like strong flavours, I can suddenly I see why people like this.
Yeah, good. It's good. Would happily. I won't.
We've got a lot to go through, and I'll probably want to
come back to that to compare, but-
I'm really, it's surprising to me. Many people are like,
"Okay, that's— I get it, but it's too much," like that. It's a lot. I'm not, there's specific
times when I would want that, but I have no objection
to that as like decaf. Decaf espresso is now absolutely on drinks that I will go, "Yes. If you're offering,
I'll have one of those." Have a little taste of this. You can give it a stir, too,
just to mix in that foam, and— I'd quite like, can I just try? Just go! Just go. Try the foam on top first.
This is no— 'Cause I can always
mix the foam in later. So this is, a cappuccino is foamed milk on top of an espresso, is that right. So you're going to use this
as a sort of shot of flavouring. Right. And then we're going to dilute it back to a more normal strength
with sweet and delicious. And this is basically all milk with a shot of espresso in there? Yep.
Okay. Oh. Ah. Okay, the foam's nice. Huh. I mean, that just tastes like
a coffee milkshake to me now, which I don't think I would
have done before today. I think I'd have been so
overwhelmed with the bitter notes and the coffee notes,
that's all I'd, but that's. It's a great breakfast drink. That— Yeah, it is. Ah, I like coffee now. You do?
(laughs) I'll take it.
I'll take that as a win. Yep. Mmm. That's so nice. Do you see why people—
That's lovely! That is so nice! All right, so, and the
other two here we have. Now here, I'll pour
you a little bit of each. One of these is caffeinated.
One of these you've tasted before, and one of them is a sort of
similarish coffee and style, but caffeinated. So you should in theory.
You might recognise— Now I can notice a difference there, and it's going to be
really difficult to tell. I don't know if it's the brew process. I don't know if the
camera could pick this up. The top of this is very smooth. There is no imperfection
or anything on top of it.
The top of this one has
a little bit of clouding, a little bit of some sort of thing on top. Almost like there's a
little bit of an oil slick or something there. So let's see. So this is the one without that oil, that a little bit of oil. Hmm. That doesn't do much for me. It's not unpleasant. It's— Well, again, you're coming from a— Yes, it-
You started very strong. Yes. Then you went to very rich and sweet, and in contrast, this will suddenly feel
lacking in comparison. Yes. But it has a little juiciness to it. There's a little acidity to it
that's quite pleasant. Yeah, that's fair.
Let's try the other one.
Different taste, definitely. Don't know what the note is. What's interesting to me
is I picked this as a coffee that's relatively similar to
the decaf one that you liked, right, but coffee is extremely diverse. Coffees from the neighbouring
farms taste different the same way that neighbouring chateaus produce different wines, so
I can't replicate it exactly. I can just get the stylistic ballpark. So it's a similarish level of acidity, similar level of texture and sweetness. This one I prefer. I think that is a very enjoyable coffee. I think this enjoyable
coffee. I think this is, I can't taste it, but I would presume, intense,
fun, almost overwhelming, but like you can understand the appeal of wanting to stand up
in a bar in Rome and have a little espresso
and move on with your day. Yeah. 100%. Oh, yeah. If I ever go to somewhere
that's known for good coffee, that's what I'd order. Even if it's decaf,
that's what I'd order, because this feels like an experience. It is like, order—
the best comparison I've got is hot sauce or something like that.
It is like ordering something
with a lot of hot sauce in because there is so much
flavour and so much going on. Whereas this, I will
happily just have this. This is really nice. That's lovely. I just like the idea of taking you from, "I don't like coffee," to espresso. (laughs)
Thank you. Thank you, James. You've taught me to like coffee. (laughs)
That was the goal for today, so I feel like I ticked that box. I'm kind of relieved. I was genuinely nervous
that you would just be like, "This is all disgusting. I don't like anything,"
and then— So was I. To be fair, that would have
probably been more entertaining for the audience.
Sure. But yeah. No, this is…
I've got a new thing I like. Thank you very much. My pleasure. [Formatting: Caption+ by JS*
https://caption.plus].
