THROUGH IT — >> I AM MATT
MILLER. >> WELCOME TO BLOOMBERG CRYPTO.
A LOOK AT THE PEOPLE AND TECHNOLOGY SHAPING THE WORLD OF
DECENTRALIZED FINANCE. >> SAM BAKER FREED IS EXPECTED
TO PLEAD NOT GUILTY TO FRAUD CHARGES. >> THE GEMLIKE CO-FOUNDER
ACCUSES THE CO-OWNER OF BAD FAITH STONEWALL TEXAS. >> HAPPY BIRTHDAY BITCOIN.
THE FIRST BITCOIN LOCK WAS MINED 14 YEARS AGO AND WE WILL
GET THE BULL AND BEAR CASES ON WHERE WE GO FROM HERE WITH
GLENN GOOD MORNING — WITH GLEN GOODMAN AND STEPHEN DIEHL. >> LET'S GET A SNAPSHOT OF THE
MARKET AND THE BEST WAY TO DO THAT IS CR WIPE EGO — CRYPGO.
BITCOIN IS DOWN THREE QUARTERS OF 1% BUT AROUND 16,000 — 16
$600 — $16,600.
WE ARE DOWN 910 TO 1% ON EITHER BUT THE BIG MOVE IS IN SALINA,
A TOKEN BACKED BY SAM BANKMAN-FRIED SO IT SUFFERED
AMID THE FALLOUT FROM FTX IS COLLAPSE AND IT WAS DOWN 94%
OVER THE COURSE OF 2022 THAT IT IS STARTING 2023 OFF WITH A
BANG.
UP 30% WHEN YOU COMBINE TODAY'S
MOVE WITH YESTERDAY'S MOVE AND PART OF THAT MAY HAVE TO DO WITH MEAN –A MEME TOKEN. >> SOUNDS LIKE A TOKEN MY
DAUGHTER NAMED. BITCOIN IS UP 1,000,000,000%.
WE ARE MEASURING IT FROM THE FIRST TRANSACTION.
HE PROBABLY TWEETED IT OUT BECAUSE HE USES TWITTER BUT —
UNDER THE HANDLE, THE STALWART. ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT —
BITCOIN IS COMPARING IT OVER FIVE YEARS VERSUS META-.
BITCOIN IN WHITE AND OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS, IT HAS
TROUNCED FACEBOOK BUT IT IS STILL WORTH FAR LESS AS JOE
POINTS OUT, THEN THE COMPANY TRADING AS META-WHICH IS WORTH
$5 MILLION IN AN BITCOIN IS ONLY — $500 BILLION AND
BITCOIN IS WORTH $320 BILLION. LET'S TALK ABOUT THE FALLOUT
FROM THE COLLAPSE OF FTX AND SAM BANKMAN-FRIED'S THEY IN
COURT IS TODAY. HE IS SUSPECTED TO PLEAD NOT
GUILTY TO FRAUD CHARGES WHEN HE APPEARS UP BEFORE A FEDERAL
JUDGE. 'S ONLY IS OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE — SONALI BASAK IS
OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE.
TELL US WHAT WE KNOW. SONALI: WE HAVE SAM BANKMAN-FRIED WHO
WALKS IN MINUTES AGO WEARING A SUIT AND A NORTH FACE BACKPACK
AND HE TRAVELED FROM HIS PARENTS HOME IN CALIFORNIA.
HE HAD TO STAY THERE AS HE HAS BEEN PLACED IN THIS $250
MILLION, RECORD-SETTING BOND. HE IS EXPECTED TO PLEAD NOT
GUILTY AND THAT IS TO THE EIGHT CRIMINAL COUNTY IS FACING AND
THAT INCLUDES RIGHT FRAUD AND CONSPIRACY TO COMMIT WIRE FRAUD
AND CONSPIRACY TO REINVEST THE FRAUD THE UNITED STATES IN
CAMPAIGN FRAUD VIOLATIONS. THE LONGER HE PLEADS NOT
GUILTY, THE MORE WE WILL SEE THE CASE THAT HAS BEEN BROUGHT
AGAINST HIM. AS OUR REPORTER, WHO IS SITTING
INSIDE AS PART OF THE REPORTERS EXPECTED TO BE IN OVERFLOW
BETTER AT THIS HEARING, SHE HAS REPORTED AND SAID PROSECUTORS
HAVE MANY THOUSANDS OF EMAILS AND PAGES AND DOCUMENTS, A
NUMBER OF WITNESSES ASIDE FROM THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE FLED GUILTY.
TWO OF HIS DEPUTIES AND MESSAGES ON SIGNAL, WHICH IS A
POPULAR WAY FOR THE CRYPTO PROUD TO BE COMMUNICATING.
— CROWD TO B COMMUNICATIONS AND WE WILL SEE THE EVIDENCE
THAT COMES THROUGH.
KAILEY:
HOW LONG ARE WE TALKING IF THIS GOES TO TRIAL? SONALI:
MANY MONTHS. THE INTERESTING THING IS THAT
FROM THE MINUTE A LOT OF THESE ISSUES CAME TO SERVICE, THE
BANK OF THREE FILING AND TO THE MOMENT HE WAS WERE — HE WAS
ARRESTED, IT TOOK WEEKS BUT FROM DECEMBER 15 TWO NOW, WE
HAVE TWO OF HIS DEPUTIES PLEADING GUILTY AND HIM AT THE
COURT OF AND HAD A NECK FOR DIET IN ORDER TO BE HERE —
MANHATTAN EXTRADITED IN ORDER TO BE HERE.
CANDACE MOVE OUT SERVER — CANDACE MOVE FASTER — CAN THIS
MOVE FASTER? YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE A OF
THIS AS WELL. THERE ARE MANY DEPUTIES THAT
HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHETHER THEY HAD A ROLE IN IT AND WHAT
THEY DO AND HOW MUCH — PART OF THIS, WHETHER IT IS A
STANDALONE ISSUE, PART OF IT IS ONE OF THE BIGGEST FRAUD CASES
IN AMERICAN HISTORY AS WELL AS MILLIONS OF CUSTOMERS WANT
THEIR MONEY BACK — WHO WANT THEIR MONEY BACK AS WELL AS A
COMMENT ABOUT SO MANY YEARS OF EXCESSES IN THIS INDUSTRY AND
IN EIGHT YOUNGER GENERATION OF PEOPLE TRYING TO CHANGE
FINANCIAL MARKETS.
KAILEY: THANK YOU FOR REPORTING OUTSIDE
THE COURTHOUSE. THE FALLOUT FROM THE COLLAPSE
OF FTX IS GETTING MESSIER. CAMERON WEIKEL FOSS — IS ACCUSING A FORMER — IN LIMBO
SINCE FTX'S MELTDOWN AND HE WROTE IN A OPEN LETTER, IT IS
NOT LOST ON IS THAT YOU HAVE BEEN WORKING NATURALLY TO TRIAL
TO — TO TRY AND FIREWALL BCG FROM THE PROBLEMS THAT YOU
CREATED AT GENESIS.
OUR REPORTER IS JOINING US WITH
MORE. HOW DOES THIS GET RESOLVED? >> IT IS POSSIBLE THAT THIS
ENDS UP BEING RESOLVED IN COURT BUT I THINK THIS OPEN LETTER IS
AN INDICATION OF HOW DESPERATE THINGS ARE.
THERE HAVE BEEN MANY ATTEMPTS SINCE NOVEMBER TO GET CUSTOMER
FUNDS TO RETURN IT TO GEMINI CUSTOMERS AND THEY FAILED AND
CAMERON WINKLEVOSS SAID HE SUBMITTED PROPOSALS TO ANOTHER
PERSON AND HE HADN'T GOTTEN BACK AND SILBERT SAID HE
SUBMITTED A PROPOSAL.
ONE PERSON DREW A LINE IN A
SAND AND SAYS WE HAD TO — WE HAVE TO RESOLVE THIS BY JULY 8
AND IT IS FAIR TO EXPECT A DRAMATIC ACTION . MATT:
WINKLEVOSS ALLEGE THAT — FROM GENESIS AND SILBERT SAID THAT
WE DIDN'T BORROW THAT BILLION OF DOLLARS FROM GENESIS AND WE
HAVE MISSED INTEREST PAYMENTS. SUGGESTING THAT THEY HAVE
BORROWED MONEY FROM GENESIS AND NOT PUTTING A NUMBER ON IT. >> THERE IS A PROMISSORY NOTE
THAT DCG HAS ISSUED TO GENESIS AFTER THE CRYPTO CRISIS
HAPPENING. THAT IS IN DO FOR 10 YEARS THAT
— THAT NOTES IS NOT DUE FOR 10 YEARS AND THERE ARE QUESTIONS
ON WHAT GENESYS'S LEGAL IMPLICATIONS ARE IN THE
TIMELINE ON EXACTLY WHEN SOME SET OF ACTIONS HAVE TO HAPPEN
AND LAWYERS WILL HAVE TO GET INVOLVED IN ARE ALREADY HEAVILY
INVOLVED.
KAILEY: WE HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE HOW
THIS PLAYS OUT. THE FTX FALLOUT IS BLEEDING
INTO THE NEW YEAR WITH BITCOIN AND IF THEY'RE YOUNG KICKING
OFF 2023 IN THE RED — ETHEREUM KICKING OFF 2023 IN THE RED.
ABIGAIL, WHEN WILL WE GET A BREAKOUT? ABIGAIL: AND MAKE THE SOON AND LET'S GET
SOME BACKGROUND. WE HAD SEVERAL BEAR MARKETS AND
THE FIRST BACK TOWARDS 2012 DOWN 91% IN THE CURRENT ONE
DOWN 75% AND THE TWO LITTLE ONES 80%.
THE RANGE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT,
IT IS NOT SO BAD RELATIVE TO THE OTHER ONES BUT THE POINT TO
MAKE COMING EACH OF THE PREVIOUS BEAR MARKETS GREW
HIGHER. LET'S TAKE A LOOK AT THAT
WEEKLY CHART AND BACK IN 2018 AND 2019, YOU HAD A STRONG
DOWNTREND BUT SELLERS EXHAUSTING THEMSELVES.
WE HAVE SOMETHING SIMILAR HAPPENING NOW AND IT SUGGESTS
THAT WE COULD HAVE BITCOIN BREAKOUT ABOVE IF THE LAST HOLD
— LAST HOLD LOWS — THOUGH HOLDS –LOW HOLDS. MATT: THAT WOULD BE ABOUT $65,000 AND
THAT IS ABIGAIL DOOLITTLE WALKING US THROUGH THE
TECHNICALS IN DOOLITTLE — CRYPTO. GLEN GOODMAN WILL JOIN US AND
WE WILL — FROM EL TORO. KAILEY: YOU WILL GET US — WE WILL GET
A PERSPECTIVE FROM STEPHEN DIEHL. >> THAT HAS BEEN A ROUGH COUPLE
OF QUARTERS FOR CRYPTO. >> FIRST LUNA TARA. >> THERE IS A POSTMORTEM ON
THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE. >> THERE ARE COMPANIES THAT MAY
FAIL IN 2023. >> LONG-TERM WILL BE POSITIVE. >> WE SHOULD EXPECT SOME CRYPTO
LEGISLATION. >> REGULATORS CAN'T JUST KEEP
WAITING FOR CONGRESS.
>> IT WILL BE NEARLY TARGETED
TO STABLECOINS. >> I EXPECT VOLATILITY IN THAT
MARKET. MATT: MARKET PARTICIPANTS CLOSING OUT
THE DISASTROUS YEAR FOR DIGITAL ASSETS AND JOINING US IS GLENN
GOODWIN — GLEN GOODMAN. HE IS AUTHOR OF THE CRYPTO
LEADER. KAILEY: TRADER. MATT:
I'M SURE EVERYONE ELSE KNEW WHAT I MEANT. WE FIND BITCOIN HAS NOT BUDGED
SINCE NOVEMBER 8 AND STUCK AROUND 16,000.
WHY THIS INCREDIBLE LACK OF VOLATILITY? >> THIS IS TRUE BUT LOOKING AT
THE GRAPH, THE GRAPH THAT ABIGAIL WAS SHOWING JUST BEFORE
THE BREAK, IT WAS FASCINATING WHEN YOU LOOK AT IT ON THE BIG
SCALE BECAUSE YOU SEE, WHAT WE HAVE BEEN POINTING OUT FOR
YEARS WHICH IS THAT YOU GET THESE BIG TRENDS WITH CRYPTO.
UP AND DOWN, THESE BIG WAVES, THAT LAST FOR A FEW YEARS.
THIS CANNOT GO ON FOREVER AND EVER.
WE WILL NOT BE SITTING HERE IN 100 YEARS TIME WITH THE SAME
KIND OF PATTERN AND WAVES BUT IT HAS HELD FIRM.
IT IS REFLECTED IN A INTERESTING REPORT I READ FROM
THE MAN GROUP BEFORE CHRISTMAS.
IT SHOWED THAT A TREND FULL —
SHOWING STRATEGY HAS OUTPERFORMED BUY-AND-HOLD.
IT HAS BEEN EFFECTIVE AND THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN DOING.
I BUY AS THE TREND BEGINS. EVERYONE IS GOING CRAZY ABOUT
CRYPTO AND THAT IS THE TIME I THINK ABOUT SELLING. SO FARM THAT HAS WORKED — SO
FAR, THAT HAS WORKED SEVERAL TIMES BUT YOU CANNOT BE SURE IT
WILL CONTINUE FOREVER BUT SO FAR, ALWAYS THE WAVES. KAILEY: ONCE WE GET OUT OF THIS PERIOD
OF STASIS, BUT WE GET A BREAK TO THE UPSIDE OR DOWNSIDE. RICK:
WE CANNOT DEFINITIVELY — GLEN: WE CANNOT DEFINITIVELY SAY THAT
WE ARE DONE WITH MOVEMENT. THE CYCLE IS TELLING US WE ARE
AT THE BOTTOM BUT I KNOW FROM PAST EXPERIENCE THAT EVEN WHEN
THE INDICATORS TELL YOU THAT YOU ARE AT THE BOTTOM, YOU MAY
GET A LURCH DOWNWARDS.
WE HAD A HUGE LURCH IN 2020
BEFORE THE BULL MARKET BEGAN BECAUSE THE PANDEMIC CAUSED
EVERYONE TO PANIC AND EVERYONE RUSHED OUT OF STOCKS AND CRYPTO
BUT THEY RUSHED BACK INTO CRYPTO.
AND THE BULL MARKET BEGAN SO YOU CANNOT RULE OUT ANOTHER
LURCH DOWN FOR — DOWNWARD BUT AS A TREND FOLLOWER, I WILL
WAIT UNTIL WE SEE WE ARE AT A UP OR TREND.
I STARTED BUYING UNTIL WE GET TO $10,000 AND IN 2020, THE
PRICE WENT AS LOW AS $4000. I WAITED A WHILE AND MISSED
UPSIDE BUT GOT IN WITH 20 MORE UPSIDE. KAILEY:
WHEN YOU REFER TO THE BAY, THEY WERE RUSHING OUT AND RUSHING IN
TO CRYPTO, WHO ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
ARE WE TALKING ABOUT RETAIL OR INSTITUTIONS?
ARE THERE INSTITUTIONAL BIAS — BUY-IN? GLEN: THERE IS NOT ANY INSTITUTIONAL
BUY-IN NOW BUT IT WILL BE AGAIN BECAUSE IT IS ON THEIR MEN NOT
— BUT IT IS ON THEIR MENU.
ONE PERSON WAS POSITIVE —
THE REPORT EVEN SUGGESTED THAT IF YOU DO NOT INVEST IN CRYPTO
AND A THE LONGER TERM, YOU ARE EXPOSED TO IT IN A NEGATIVE WAY
BECAUSE COMPANIES YOU ARE EXPOSED TO MIGHT BE PUSHED OUT
OF THE MARKET BY CRYPTO BLOCKCHAIN BASED COMPETITORS.
THAT REPORT WAS SUGGESTING THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE EXPOSURE.
I AM HOPE — I HOPE I AM NOT PARAPHRASING THEM THEM TOO MUCH.
MATT: THIS CRYPTOCURRENCY, IT FELT
LIKE, WAS INVENTED TO CIRCUMVENT THE KIND OF
CENTRALIZED GOVERNMENT CONTROL.
DO WE EVEN WANT IT? GLEN:
I WANT TO SEE MARK SKEPTICISM GENERALLY DURING THE BULL FACES.
WE ARE NEVER SHORT OF SKEPTICISM DURING THE BEAR
FACES BUT PEOPLE LIKE THE NEXT GUY YOU HAVE, STEPHEN DIEHL,
WHO WAS SHOUTING ABOUT THE NEGATIVES DURING THE BULL
MARKET, NO ONE WAS LISTENING TO HIM THEN BUT THEY ARE LISTENING
NOW BUT IT IS TOO LATE FOR THAT. DURING THE BULL FACES, WE NEED
PEOPLE TO LOOK AT THINGS LIKE LUNA, WHEN YOU HAD 20% YIELDS
OFFERED ON PEOPLE'S MONEY, I WAS LOOKING AT THAT AND I WAS
SAYING, THAT SOUNDS SUSPICIOUS. I DON'T KNOW THERE IS A PROBLEM
WITH THE CODE BY 20% YIELD, IF IT IS IN TRADITIONAL CLIMATES,
YOU WOULD START ASKING SERIOUS QUESTIONS IN THE SAME VISA
HAPPEN IN CRYPTO. PEOPLE SHOULDN'T GET TOO
OVEREXCITED ON THE UPSIDE. MATT: GLEN GOODMAN THERE, CRYPTO
BULL FROM ETORO. WE WILL GET A SKEPTICS
PERSPECTIVE AS HE MENTIONED. STEPHEN DIEHL JOINS US, OFFER KAILEY:
THIS IS BLOOMBERG CRYPTO AND I AM KAILEY LEINZ WITH MATT
MILLER. STEPHEN DIEHL SAYS CRYPTO
TECHNOLOGY DOES NOT SOLVE A REAL PROBLEM. HE WRITES — STEVEN IS JOINING US NOW AND I
KNOW YOU ALSO HEARD LEN GOODMAN OF ETORO NAME CHECK YOU.
I WILL GIVE YOU THE FLOOR TO YOUR REACTION WHAT HE SAID.
STEPHEN: I AGREE WITH WHAT HE SAYS AND
THERE IS NEED FOR MORE SKEPTICISM ABOUT CRYPTO.
I AM A NONBELIEVER BUT I AM
WITH THE WARREN BUFFETT SCHOOL OF THOUGHT ON CRYPTO AND A LOT
OF US HAVE BEEN WAVING OUR HANDS FOR YEARS ABOUT THE
PROBLEMS WITH CRYPTO BUT LITTLE AVAIL. MATT: WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE LACK OF
A POINT OR USE CASE FOR CRYPTO, I THINK OF WHAT WE SAW HAPPEN
WHEN RUSSIA FIRST ADMITTED UKRAINE AND THERE IS A
CENSORSHIP, THAT IS THE JARGON HE — JARGONY CRYPTO WAY OF
SAYING, GOVERNANCE — GOVERNMENTS TRY TO CONTROL THE
MONEY FLOW. THE POINT, PART OF THE POINT,
AS I UNDERSTOOD IT 15 YEARS AGO, WAS THAT YOU COULD REWORK
— YOU COULD WORK AROUND THE GOVERNMENT CENSORSHIP.
ISN'T THAT IMPORTANT? STEPHEN:
I WOULD DIG INTO THE DETAILS ON HOW THAT WILL WORK BECAUSE IF
YOU WANT TO SEND MONEY TO A PERSON UNDER A AUTHORITARIAN
REGIME — REGIME, YOU HAVE TO USE OF LOCAL CURRENCY AND IF
YOU USE THAT CURRENCY UNDER A AUTHORITARIAN REGIME, IT WILL — MATT: YOU SEND MONEY OUT OF A
AUTHORITARIAN REGIME AND AUTHORITARIANS ARE TRYING TO
CONTROL THE USE AND THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT IS MORE FRIENDLY TO
IT.
THE OTHER USE CASE IS A STORE
OF VALUE WHICH WE HAVE SEEN HAVE BEEN IN MANY EMERGING
ORCHIDS WITH RUNAWAY INFLATION AND AFRICA AND IT HAS BEEN
HELPFUL OF THOSE WHO COULD NOT COUNT ON THEIR OWN LOCALS
CURRENCIES. HOW DO YOU RECRUIT THAT —
REFUTE THAT? STEPHEN: IT DOES NOT STORE VALUE OVER
LONG PERIODS OF TIME? IT IS PREDICATED ON FINDING —
IT HAS THE SAME ECONOMICS OF THE POLICIES SCHEME — PONZI
SCHEME.
ALL OF THESE CRYPTO INVESTMENTS
HAVE EXACTLY THE SAME FUNDAMENTALS AND THEY HAVE THE
SAME THEY ARE MARKET VALUE WHICH IS ZERO AND YOU LOOK AT
PLACES LIKE EL SALVADOR WHERE YOU THEY TRY TO USE IT, IT IS
WORKING POORLY. MATT: SO DID THEIR PREVIOUS CURRENCY.
ALL OF THESE ARGUMENTS COULD BE MADE ABOUT FIAT CURRENCIES.
IF YOU SAY THERE IS NO INTRINSIC VALUE — STEPHEN:
CURRENCY VERSUS INVESTMENT ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS AND THEY
HAVE OPPOSITE PROPERTIES. FIAT HAS NO INTEREST IN VALUE
BUT THERE IS A CURRENCY. KRITI: YOU ARE ONE OF THE SIGNATORIES
ON A LETTER — URGING THEM NOT TO RESPOND TO CRYPTO FINANCIERS
AND LOBBYISTS ARGUING THAT THEY SHOULD NOT CREATE A REVELATORY
SAFE HAVEN FOR CRYPTO, HOW WOULD YOU LIKE ROCK —
WASHINGTON TO RESPOND TO WHAT WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST
SEVERAL MONTHS? STEPHEN: NUMBER ONE, THEY SHOULD ENFORCE
THE SECURITIES ACT AND ALL OF THE CRYPTO EXCHANGES OPERATING
DOES NOT SUPPORT — APPLY TO — COMPLY TO SECURITIES LAWS.
THEY SHOULD ENFORCE ACTION AGAINST AMERICAN COMPANIES
SELLING THEM IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH SHOULD BRING FOREIGN
EXCHANGES THAT ARE OPERATING COUNTER FOR IT U.S.
DOLLAR DERIVATIVES AND THEY SHOULD BE SANCTIONED.
THEY ARE OPERATING IN A WAY THAT IS NOT COMPLIANT WITH LOSS
–LAW S.
KAILEY: THANK YOU FOR GIVING US YOUR
TIME AND THAT WAS CRYPTO SKEPTICS STEPHEN DIEHL. MATT: WE WILL DISCUSS THE LEGAL
IMPLICATIONS FOR THE CASE AGAINST SAM BANKMAN-FRIED AND
FORMER DOJ CYBER DIGITAL TASK FORCE SUJIT
RAMAN JOINS US TO TALK ABOUT THAT..
